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 Stage 3 of the site 
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Post Stage 3 of the site
Hi all,
Im having some AOL trouble with the overall sketch of the site.
Whenever i star drawing I let my analytical mind draw:
"Hmmm, lets put some circles (lifeforms) here, a structure here, ow.. and some mountains there..."
Its not as instructed on DVD1:
"Something here, something there aanndd.... something there. Done"
Afterwards, when I continue with S2 of an aspect, I make up descriptor words which match the freehand-sketch aspect i drew earlier.
This doesnt feel right, is it?

Thanks for any assitance!

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Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:06 pm
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Post Re: Stage 3 of the site
capjaneway wrote:
Hi all,
Im having some AOL trouble with the overall sketch of the site.
Whenever i star drawing I let my analytical mind draw:
"Hmmm, lets put some circles (lifeforms) here, a structure here, ow.. and some mountains there..."
Its not as instructed on DVD1:
"Something here, something there aanndd.... something there. Done"
Afterwards, when I continue with S2 of an aspect, I make up descriptor words which match the freehand-sketch aspect i drew earlier.
This doesnt feel right, is it?

Thanks for any assitance!


Im not trying to be mean, but you just slaughtered everything taught on dvd1.

What is "overall sketch of the site" stage please? Freehand, s3 sketch, ST, s6?
captjaneway wrote:
"Hmmm, lets put some circles (lifeforms) here, a structure here, ow.. and some mountains there..."

This is not cake decorating or creative drawing etc. please review dvd1
captjaneway wrote:
Afterwards, when I continue with S2 of an aspect, I make up descriptor words which match the freehand-sketch aspect i drew earlier.

You do not make up descriptor words, follow the instructions please. How can you match something that you didnt do. What in the world are you drawing before an S2?

If you need help, please review the dvds up to your level. After you have done that, feel free to ask me what you will. I will try to help you but at this point you seem utterly lost.

Please take this with all the kindness intended, i will indeed help you in anyway i can to learn this skill.

Best of luck,
Jaybird


Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:49 pm
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Post 
Cap,
What you are describing is a thought process, and you're right--it isn't right. It's normal, everybody does it--for a while. The quicker you stop doing it, the sooner your work will improve. As the major says: "No thinking allowed!"

Ok, so that is easier said than done. The goal is to have your hand draw the sketch without your conscious mind helping. The words get in the way. Don't name the shapes you sketch, just let your hand move the pen on the paper. If you draw a circle, don't think "That's a circle." Don't think at all. Every time you do an S3 sketch, your ability to do it without thinking will improve.

Never give up. Never surrender. (Sorry, I really liked 'Galaxy Quest' better than 'Star Trek')

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Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:02 pm
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Yeah, what he said.
Sorry there Janeway, i just could not understand what you were asking based on what we were taught.

Anyway, startrek, Galaxy quest? Personally i kinda liked spaceballs.

May the Swartz be with you.


Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:15 pm
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Post Re: Stage 3 of the site
JayBird wrote:
Im not trying to be mean, but you just slaughtered everything taught on dvd1.

Yeah ino, sorry, I will elaborate.

JayBird wrote:
What is "overall sketch of the site" stage please? Freehand, s3 sketch, ST, s6?
This is not cake decorating or creative drawing etc. please review dvd1

Overall sketch->S3: Freehand sketch.
Exactly, that is the problem, I THINK about what i draw, instead of letting the brain in my hand determine what to do.

After i did the S3 freehand sketch, I move on to S2 of X. Then i'am making up descriptor words which fit the analytical meaning of the symbols I drew in the S3 freehand sketch.
When i'm writing down one descriptor word, i am already actively thinking about the next word, instead of letting myself write it down spontaneously.
Also, whenever I write the word 'dark', the word 'bright' immediately comes to mind, only because it's the opposite of dark. That doesn't feel right.

JayBird wrote:
You do not make up descriptor words, follow the instructions please. How can you match something that you didnt do. What in the world are you drawing before an S2?

S2 of an aspect, Stage 2 of X for example.

JayBird wrote:
If you need help, please review the dvds up to your level. After you have done that, feel free to ask me what you will. I will try to help you but at this point you seem utterly lost.


I've viewed DVD1 4 times now, and I try to do exactly as instructed. The point is that I think too much. I actively think about the words to write, the things to draw...

JayBird wrote:
Please take this with all the kindness intended, i will indeed help you in anyway i can to learn this skill.

Best of luck,
Jaybird

Many thanks for your comments, no offense taken at all.

Ow btw, Star trek rulez! :P


Chartless wrote:
Cap,
What you are describing is a thought process, and you're right--it isn't right. It's normal, everybody does it--for a while. The quicker you stop doing it, the sooner your work will improve. As the major says: "No thinking allowed!"

Yeah that's the problem allright

Chartless wrote:
Ok, so that is easier said than done. The goal is to have your hand draw the sketch without your conscious mind helping. The words get in the way. Don't name the shapes you sketch, just let your hand move the pen on the paper. If you draw a circle, don't think "That's a circle." Don't think at all. Every time you do an S3 sketch, your ability to do it without thinking will improve.

Later today I will do 2 more session, then I will move on to DVD2. I hope this will work out :)

Chartless wrote:
Never give up. Never surrender. (Sorry, I really liked 'Galaxy Quest' better than 'Star Trek')

Nah, Star trek owns! :P :P

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Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:25 am
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Thank you, your post makes much more sense now.

Something that helps a bunch of people is to just simply go faster. If you have time to think, you are writing too slow.

For the most part, speed is different for everyone, but sometimes it is better to go faster and then learn to slow down to your natural speed then to not go fast enough and have to deal with a lot of aol.

You want to be going fast enough that the only thing you have time to think about is: "whats next". That is all.

Never "think back" to get your data. "Think forward." The datum you are looking to write is not what you wrote in a previous s2, s3. The answer is in the combination of nuances that eventually tell you what is coming next. You will eventually get to know it, until then it just takes lots of practice.

Your biggest enemy is going to be your own mind, it has never had to learn to behave so this will not come overnight. There is a place for everything that comes into your head, just make sure you write them where they belong.

No daydreaming during session.


Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:46 am
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Janeway,
Additionally, on freehand sketch, its more like an ideogram than a sketch. No thinking, just make some scribbles and put some labels on them.

In specific reference to a regular s3, the only thinking there should be is, what SHAPES does this shape look like. You have to figure what does boxy and tall etc... look like and sketch quickly to fit. Draw the dimensions you wrote in S2, that is all. Anything else that comes to mind is AOL at this point in your training.

Hope that helps.


Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:11 pm
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Post 
JayBird wrote:
Thank you, your post makes much more sense now.

Something that helps a bunch of people is to just simply go faster. If you have time to think, you are writing too slow.

For the most part, speed is different for everyone, but sometimes it is better to go faster and then learn to slow down to your natural speed then to not go fast enough and have to deal with a lot of aol.

Hmmm yeah I should try that. Only problem is that it will be unreadable to anyone else except me, which would make it unsuitable for posting here :P

JayBird wrote:
You want to be going fast enough that the only thing you have time to think about is: "whats next". That is all.

Never "think back" to get your data. "Think forward." The datum you are looking to write is not what you wrote in a previous s2, s3. The answer is in the combination of nuances that eventually tell you what is coming next. You will eventually get to know it, until then it just takes lots of practice.

Eventually...
Ah well, I am doing at least one target a day, two if possible. Practice makes perfect.

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Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:37 pm
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Post 
Quote:
Hmmm yeah I should try that. Only problem is that it will be unreadable to anyone else except me, which would make it unsuitable for posting here
You should see my writing :)


Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:23 pm
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Janeway,
Sloppy is fine until s4 where only YOU need to be able to read it to label your ST. But for the most part, the only thing that must be readable is the ST and summary.

If you are posting an entire session for critique, go back and and document it on another paper after the session is complete, or use photoshop to clarify your descriptors on your scanned work for your instructors.

Sometimes even i cannot read my own s2 data, i have to quickly jump to my s3 so i can transpose dimensions before i forget what i wrote and cant even read that.

If you are worried about being neat, that is thinking.


Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:48 pm
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Post 
capjaneway,

I see you're in good hands with Jaybird & Chartless.

Not to recycle what's already been said in the forum, but I'll add some comments that may be helpful with some of you're issues.

All the suggestions for the general sense of your issues are spread throughout the forum and a search would help in what you've been encountering.

1st thing is to follow instructions on the DVD set. It is setup by the teacher who knows best. If you're not following it to the "T" then you're already not following instructions and will not learn efficiently.

Thinking/Analyzing

By what you've written, it appears you've been thinking way too much during a session. It's focused inattention while tending to structure. You should only be thinking about structure during a session.

If you recall the dvd set, Ed uses the example of driving in the car and looking at the rearview mirror.

"Don't go back and remember anything, there's no running memory here"
"...influencing the flow of data"
"All you're worried is about what's ahead and not what's behind"

You need to learn how it is to do a session without thinking and repeat it with every session - which obviously takes practice and being in structure. Some viewers find the book "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" useful, as it helps in teaching the skill in terms of transferring data to lines without analysis. Some viewers don't even read the whole book as the 1st couple exercises will get you to realize how it feels physiologically to just use your right brain instead of the analytical distortion of the left brain, etc. Pick up the book so you can experience what not thinking is like. Ok enough of the book, as it is not the only solution to your thinking problem, so don't miss the point.

Do not linger on an AOL either as it will overlay you're session where you're descriptors will be derived from you're AOL's. You'll find it will take some practice and time to determine if the data coming into you're awareness is AOL or actual data relating to the target. Don't edit, as that's thinking, just drop the data coming into you're awareness where it belongs.

Going Faster

Going faster will help, but if this doesn't help then perhaps you think too much even when you're not RV'n. When you're not RV'n, instead of thinking about all the things you can do to answer you're personal questions, focus on thinking about structure, as structure is everything.

If you start going faster & faster and are still thinking, do not get the idea that the faster you write, the faster you think and/or that you're thinking faster then you're hand can write. You're just thinking and need to stop. Furthermore, don't go too fast where you're automatically writing words and allowing your conscious mind to daydream imagination with all sorts of AOL. Go fast enough so you're not thinking AOL, but allowing you're unconscious to control the session. It will take practice to find you're speed.

Again as Jaybird referred to you in another thread of his response to MultiLnV's original post at (viewtopic.php?t=2792), it will give you some insight into perception.

Writing

You need to trust you're unconscious and the "brain in your hand". You're allowing you're skeptical, logical conscious mind to overlay the session. Now that your conscious mind realizes RV works, you care about the target too much that you're thinking about what you write.

If you're worried about anything at all, you're thinking period. So do not care about you're writing as you're investing in the target. "If I can't read my writing then I'll definitely be off target or then it's unsuitable for posting". Relax, you will be able to read/decipher you're own writing, you're just trying to outpace your thinking as a strategy. If you honestly can't read you're writing, then you're taking the go fast strategy to the extreme and were thinking so much to begin with as you were going blazing fast scribbling words similar to doctor handwriting.

1 or 2 targets a day

It's fine to do 1 target a day, it's also good practice to do no more than 2 targets every other day; you don't want to overtrain as it can be damaging to your skill. You'll need you're unconscious to integrate the new stuff and sleep would be helpful. Also, as you get better in structure and start to trust your data, do not overtrain.

DVD's

As repeated over and over again, watch the dvd's and pay close attention to every word spoken by Ed as everything he says is gold. As you're skill progresses, everytime you re-watch the lessons you will get a clearer insight that you didn't quite understand previously; the "a-ha" feeling will sweep over you.

Session Critique

If you're not in a local team trading sessions and/or getting critique from more experienced/trained viewers outside of the forum, then keep posting sessions online. The advanced students and pros will break your structure down to the nitty gritty and nit pick every issue you're having. They can relate to your concerns as they were once beginners too, been served with the hammer of doom, or simply pros. You will feel pedantic in your blood as this skill demands rigor and excellence.

Ok i'll let you get back to your tutortime with Jaybird and Chartless as they are good viewers and can suggest many helpful pointers to the issues you're having.

So just keep at it and keep asking questions; before you know it, you'll be helping others out too. :)


Thu May 01, 2008 10:33 am
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Many thanks for your effort!

I just did another session, and I completely sc***ed it.
I noticed 2 things: The words are coming more spontaneouly, i increased my speed a little.
However, since S2 of X, I had the AOL of a UFO. The rest of the data was derived from the previous stages and/or from the UFO AOL. I think I was working TOWARDS a site template in which I would depict a UFO (circular thing flying over mountaneous landscape), instead of just... well... following instructions...

I will search the local library, and see if there is a copy of The Right Side of the Brain. It seems I need a little more training on how not-to-think at will.

Tomorrow I'll do some scanning, and post the described session here.

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Thu May 01, 2008 8:19 pm
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Post 
Very helpful advice on 'going faster', resilient. I'd headed more that direction myself in an effort to avoid the obsessive AOLs that come up in a couple of my earlier sessions.

I slowed down a little again when I realized my thinking was speeding up a bit too (erratically) and my handwriting was becoming hard to read. (and no, I don't always recognize or remember what I've written... going back over my list when I'm reviewing feedback, I'm occasionally surprised by what I've written.) My writing does need to be legible at a minimum, even if only to my eyes.

capjaneway, when you find the AOL dominating things, try Ed's suggestion to sketch it on a separate sheet of paper, without embellishment, and set it aside, upside down. This helped me a bit. (Though in one session I ended up sketching AOL trees and then AOL forest almost back-to-back.)

Thanks,
--JohnD

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Thu May 01, 2008 11:05 pm
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